IInternational Science Council uye Nhengo yayo, iyo China Association yeSainzi neTekinoroji (Rashai), mukubatana na muzvarirwo, vatanga mutsva wezvikamu zvitanhatu zvepodcast series "Basa resainzi munyika inochinja” tichiongorora mamiriro ari kuitika emabasa ekutsvagisa.Pakati pezvikamu izvi, vaongorori vebasa rekutanga nevepakati vachange vachikurukurirana nemasayendisiti echikuru, vachigovana zviitiko zvekukura, kubatana, uye kusimba mukutarisana neshanduko inokurumidza.
Muchikamu chechina, mutori wenhau wesainzi Izzie Clarke anotaura naye Muzvinafundo Rashid Sumaila, Canada Research Chair muInterdisciplinary Ocean uye Fisheries Economics paYunivhesiti yeBritish Columbia, uye Dr Mia Strand, Postdoctoral Research Fellow paNelson Mandela University. Pamwe chete, ivo vanoongorora kuti tsvakiridzo yetransdisciplinary iri kuumba sei ramangwana resainzi yegungwa uye nei kubatirana muzvikamu, zvikamu, uye nharaunda kwakakosha kugadzirisa matambudziko arikunetsa epasirese.
Hurukuro iyi inoburitsa basa rehutungamiriri revatsvagiri vekutanga uye vepakati-basa mukusundidzira miganhu, kukurudzira nzira dzakaenzana, nekubatanidza nzira dzakasiyana dzeruzivo.
Izzie Clarke: 00:01
Mhoroi ndokugamuchirai. Ini ndiri mutori wenhau wesainzi Izzie Clarke uye mune ino podcast, yakaratidzwa mukubatana neInternational Science Council, nerutsigiro rweChina Association for Science and Technology, tichave tichikurukura nezvesimba rekutsvagisa kwemarudzi akasiyana-siyana kuchengetedza gungwa redu, uye kuti vaongorori vekutanga uye vepakati-basa vanogona sei kuunza shanduko yakakosha.
Nhasi, ndabatanidzwa naRashid Sumaila, Canada Research Chair muInterdisciplinary Ocean and Fisheries Economics, uye Purofesa paYunivhesiti yeBritish Columbia muCanada.
Rashid Sumaila: 00:36
Mhoro. Ndinokutendai nekundiwana.
Izzie Clarke: 00:38
Uye Dr Mia Strand, yeOcean Nexus Postdoctoral Research Fellow paInstitute for Coastal Marine Research paNelson Mandela University muSouth Africa.
Mia Strand: 00:48
Hi, Izzie. Ndinokutendai zvikuru nekuve neni.
Izzie Clarke: 00:51
Ndinokutendai mese nekubatana neni. Ndinofunga tiri kurarama munguva yatiri kutanga kunzwisisa kuti nekuchengetedza gungwa redu, zvinoreva kuti tiri kuchengetedza pasi redu. Isu tiri nyika yegungwa. Saka, nei nzira yetransdisciplinary yakakosha pakugadzirisa matambudziko egungwa nhasi?
Rashid Sumaila: 01:09
Hongu, chaizvoizvo, tine gungwa rimwe repasi rose. Tese takabatana. Saka, kwandiri, ndiyo imwe nzvimbo uko kudyidzana kwakakosha, zvechokwadi. Kwete masayendisiti chete, asi kushanda nehurumende, neNGOs, nenharaunda, vanhu veIndigenous, kuedza kutsvaga mhinduro inoshanda.
Ini ndiri muongorori wezvehupfumi nekudzidziswa asi ndakasarudza kuve mudiki nekuti handina kumbobvira ndatenda kuti hupfumi hwega hunogona kugadzirisa matambudziko edu makuru - unofanirwa kushanda pamwe chete. Hapana boka rimwechete kana chirango chinogona kugadzirisa nyaya dzegungwa. Isu tinofanirwa kunzwisisa zvese, kubva kune ecology chaiko kusvika kumakemikari, fizikisi, kuvanhu, nharaunda, saka iyi irabhoritari yekudyidzana.
Izzie Clarke: 01:51
Uye Mia?
Mia Strand: 01:55
Kunyanya munharaunda, ndinofunga kuti zvakakoshawo kupindura kumatambudziko chaiwo uye chokwadi che, kunyanya, nharaunda dzemumahombekombe dziri kutarisana nezvakawanda zvekukanganisa kwemamiriro ekunze uye kuparara kwegungwa uye acidization yegungwa, semuenzaniso, uye kuve nechokwadi chekuti tsvagiridzo yedu nebasa redu rakanyatso batana nezvinoitika pasi. Uye zvakare, kuti yakabatana nepolicy nepolicy zvinodiwa.
Izzie Clarke: 02:23
Hongu, zvachose. Uye zviri pachena kuti izvi zvinoda vanhu vazhinji vanobatanidzwa mazviri kuti vabatsire. Saka, kana zvasvika kune vekutanga- uye vepakati-basa vaongorori, vari kubatsira kupi uye sei, uye ndeupi hunyanzvi hunodiwa pamwoyo weizvozvo?
Mia Strand: 02:38
Ini zvechokwadi ndinofunga kuti yekutanga- uye yepakati-basa vaongorori vatove zvinoshamisa simba rekutyaira mune izvozvo. Ndinofunga kuti tiri kuona chizvarwa chinotevera kana chizvarwa chezvino chevatsvakurudzi vanoda chaizvo kutevera zvakawanda, izvo zvatinowanzodana, nzira dzepasi-kumusoro, kana tsvakurudzo yehukama uye yehutsika iyo inosanganisira, saRashid aitaura, maNGOs, vanhu vemunyika, vakuru vehurumende, mubasa ravanoita. Tiri kuona vakawanda vekutanga- uye vepakati-basa vatsvakurudzi vachida kupikisa mamiriro ezvinhu, uye ndinofunga kuti zvinodikanwa kutevera tsvakurudzo yehutsika uye yakaenzana uye nzira.
Rashid Sumaila: 03:19
Pfungwa yaunotaura, Mia, yekungosundira envelopu uye kuzunza hurongwa, ndicho chinhu chimwe chandinoda nezvevechidiki vari kuuya mubhizinesi iri. Vanhu vakasiyana, handiti? Uye isu tinoda maonero ese aya kana tichienda kumberi.
Kungokupa muenzaniso wekukurumidza, chirongwa chedu, OceanCanada Partnership, chinodaidzwa kunzi mubatanidzwa, uye Social Sciences and Research… Humanities Research Council yekuCanada, inonzi SSHRC, ine rubatsiro rwekudyidzana. Uye vanosimbirira kuti kwete chete mapurofesa akasiyana, asiwo vadzidzi uye nharaunda, hurumende, vauye pamwe chete. Uye 50% yebhajeti yaive yekuvandudza mabasa ekutanga.
Izzie Clarke: 04:03
Zvinofadza kuona kuti izvo zvave kutotanga, kuti zvinhu zvakadaro zviripo. Ungati here kune humwe hunyanzvi hwekumira hwaunofunga kuti hwakakosha pakushanda mundima iyi kune chero angave achiteerera?
Rashid Sumaila: 04:13
Oh hongu. Panyaya yehunyanzvi, tiri kufamba mune imwe chaiyo tekinoroji mhando yehunyanzvi, tiri kutaura nezveAI uye hurongwa uye zvichingodaro. Zvinhu zviri kufamba nekukurumidza, uye vechidiki zviri pachena vane maitiro uye vanounza izvi mumapoka uye tinoona kuti ine kukosha kwakawanda. Saka, ndicho chimwe chikamu chandinoda kuratidza pano.
Izzie Clarke: 04:37
Mia, pane chimwe chinhu chaungada kuwedzera?
Mia Strand: 04:39
Ehe. Unyanzvi hwekufambisa ndihwo hwakakosha. Uye isu tiri kuona kuti kubatanidzwa kwevatori vechikamu mumaonero akasiyana uye nzira dzakasiyana dzehukama kana kuziva gungwa kwakakosha uye kunogona kupa zvakawanda mukuita zvine musoro.
Ndinonzwa sekunge ini pachangu ndakabatsirwa kubva kuve kudzidziswa kwetsika, mune izvo zvinowanzonzi tsika dzemazuva ese. Saka, mhiri chaizvo masangano etsika maitirwo, izvo ndiri chaizvoizvo kubatikana nazvo panguva, zviri zvakawanda pamusoro sei tingashandisa nzira dzakasiyana-siyana tsika zuva nezuva uye kuvaka ukama, uye kugadzirisa simba asymmetries uye simba hukama izvo zvakatoiswa muhukama hwatinoumba kana huripo kare, uye kutora nguva yekuvaka kuvimba uye kuumba ukama. Ndichowo chinhu chakakosha.
Izzie Clarke: 05:31
Ehe. Tichifunga kuti iyi inyaya hombe yekubata, iwe uchada kushanda nevanhu padivi pesimba rekutsvagisa transdisciplinary munzira iyoyo. Saka, unogona kundiudza nezve purojekiti yawakambopinda mairi inounza dzidziso dzakasiyana mukati mekutsvaga kwemakungwa, uye chii chaive chiri kuyedza kugadzirisa?
Rashid Sumaila: 05:53
Ehe. Tine chirongwa chehupenyu ikozvino, imwe Canada Partnership rubatsiro, tine nyaya dzezvidzidzo mumakondinendi mashanu. Tine Canadian case study, iyo inotaura nezve Indigenous manejimendi yegungwa nehove, iyo yavane mazana emakore eruzivo mairi. Ipapo tinoenda kuNetherlands, tichitaura nezve denderedzwa hupfumi. Ipapo isu tiri kuWest Africa, tichitarisa IUU hove, nyaya dzevakadzi uye kusimba, kuchengetedza chikafu.
Tozoenda kuChina, ikoko tiri kutarisa nezvekurima nekuti ndivo shasha dzekurima. Saka, chii chatingadzidze kubva kuChina, uye chii chatisingade kubata nedanda refu kubva pane zvakaitika kwavari? Pakupedzisira, muCosta Rica, hukama hwepasi-yegungwa.
Uye mune zvese izvi zvidzidzo zvenyaya, chinangwa chedu ndechekuti tingagadzirisa sei matambudziko ekugarisa pane nexus yekuchengetedzwa kwechikafu. Iwe unodyisa sei mabhiriyoni evanhu mukutarisana nekushanduka kwemamiriro ekunze pasina kuparadza zvipenyu zvakasiyana-siyana?
Izzie Clarke: 06:59
Kune misoro yakawanda uye nyika uye makona akasiyana epasi ese anobatanidzwa mune izvozvo. Iwe unototanga sei kuronga chimwe chinhu chakadaro, nokuti chine zvikamu zvakawanda zvinofamba?
Rashid Sumaila: 07:12
Zvamazvirokwazvo, uye ikoko idenho, ichocho chaizvoizvo chikamu chinonakidza! Ndinofunga chimwe chezvinhu zvatakava neruzivo rwekushanda nemapoka makuru. Asi zvakadaro hazvisi nyore, zvakaoma zvikuru. Kune mitauro yakasiyana, yekuranga, yekondinendi, zvichingodaro. Asi iwe unoziva kukosha kweizvi, kusvika ikozvino, kunoshamisa.
Izzie Clarke: 07:34
Uye Mia, ungandiudza here nezve purojekiti yauri kuitawo uye, zvakare, taura nezvekuti zvinounza sei izvo zvakasiyana dzidziso pamwechete?
Mia Strand: 07:43
Ehe. Chimwe chezvirongwa zvandiri kuita parizvino iboka rekushanda reWIOMSA rinonzi Blue Tenure Transitions. Uye izvo zviri chaizvo kuunza pamwechete vemakungwa uye zvemagariro masayendisiti ezvirango zvakasiyana, asiwo vanhu vari muhurumende, vanoita sarudzo, uye zvakare vane ruzivo rwenharaunda.
Uye ndezvechokwadi kuedza uye kunzwisisa uye kutsvagisa kuti kodzero dzevaredzi vadiki nevemaoko uye nharaunda dzenharaunda nedzemumhenderekedzo dzegungwa dzinogona kuzivikanwa zviri nani asi dzakaonekwawo nezvekodzero dzavo muWestern Indian Ocean, kunyanya, mumamiriro ekuwedzera ehupfumi hweblue investimendi nekuedza, asi zvakare kuwedzera nzira dzekuchengetedza gungwa senge chinangwa che30 × 30 mukuronga kwenzvimbo yegungwa kuri kuitika.
Izzie Clarke: 08:33
Uye iwe unotsigira kubatana kwakaenzana nenharaunda dzemugungwa, zvakare, uye muzvikamu zvakapfuura zveiyi nhevedzano, takataura nezvekukosha kwazvakaita kubatanidza Global South, zvakare, mukukurukurirana. Saka, izvo zvinotaridzika sei mukudzidzira kushanda nenharaunda dzemugungwa, uye nei icho chiri chikamu chakakosha chepuzzle ikozvino uye mune ramangwana?
Mia Strand: 08:56
Ndichiri kufunga kuti isu tinoda chaizvo kumisa zviitiko uye chokwadi chenharaunda dzemahombekombe, kunyanya, muGlobal South uye nekondinendi yeAfrica, iri kutarisana nematambudziko mazhinji nhasi. Uye ini ndinofunga kuti nzira chete iyo masayendisiti kana vaongorori, kana kunyange vanoita sarudzo, vanogona kuve nechokwadi chekuti vari kunzwa nekuteerera zvakadzama ndeye kunyatsoshanda nenzira dzakaenzana.
Saka, zvinoratidzika sei? Mukana wekushandura wetsvakiridzo yetransdisciplinary ndeyekuti kunyangwe kubva pakutanga, dhizaini yeprojekiti uye nzira yatinoita tsvakiridzo yedu inogona kugadzirwa pamwe nenhengo dzenharaunda. Uye ini ndinofunga kune yekutanga- uye yepakati-basa vaongorori, ndinofunga zviri zvakare nezvekunzwisisa kuti ndiani uye zvauri kuita tsvakiridzo yako, zvaunoda kuita uye nei. Tiri kuona akawanda ekutanga- uye epakati-basa vatsvagiri vari kutoita izvozvo, izvo zvakanaka kwazvo kuona.
Izzie Clarke: 09:58
Ehe. Uye Rashid, iwe unofunga kuti ndezvipi zvipingamupinyi zvakakura pakuita tsvakiridzo yepasirese uye munharaunda-yakavakirwa kuwanda, uye pane nzira dzatingatanga nadzo kuzvikunda?
Rashid Sumaila: 10:11
Ehe. Zvipingamupinyi, mutauro, zvakare. Imwe yacho ndeye - Mia, ndinoda kuti unosimbisa kusaenzana kwesimba uye kusaenzana, nekuti izvo zvakakosha. Nekunyatso kufuratira nharaunda, tiri kurasikirwa nechimwe chinhu zvachose.
Ndinofunga nyika yedu uye hupfumi hwedu hunofambiswa zvakanyanya neinonzi Western nheyo, uye isu tinogona kukakavara izvozvo. Ndinoudza vanhu kutsvaga purofiti hachisi chinhu chekuMadokero chete. Sekuru vangu vamene vaiziva kuti vaisagona kuramba vachirasikirwa nebhizimisi ravo duku. Asi zvinoita sekunge purofiti, purofiti yenguva pfupi, iri kumhanyisa nyika, uye ndinofunga chaizvo kana tikavhura nzvimbo yeruzivo rwechivanhu - chandinodaidza kuti huchenjeri hwambuya - kupfavisa iyi hardcore 'mari, mari, mari' chinhu, icho chichaita kuti nyika ive nani, isu tichaziva maitiro ekugadzirisa zvakatipoteredza.
Izzie Clarke: 11:10
Nderipi zano, uye iri kune imi mese, raungapa kune vekutanga- uye vepakati-basa vatsvagiri vanoda kutanga basa rekutsvagisa transdisciplinary?
Mia Strand: 11:20
Ndinofunga chingozviita. Ini ndinofunga kunakidzwa uye dzidza, uye mabhenefiti anodarika mutengo, ndingati, kunyangwe zvichikupa bvudzi jena uye zvichigona kusarara husiku, ndinofunga kuti zvichaita kuti tsvakiridzo yako nebasa rako rive rakakosha, rinoshanda, uye iwe uchadzidza zvakawanda.
Uye gadzirira kuzvininipisa uye kusadzidza zvinhu. SaRashid aitaura, chakanyanya kukosha kubvunza mamwe masimba anogona kunge ane ruzha kupfuura mamwe ari munyika izvozvi.
Rashid Sumaila: 12:00
Iri izano rakanaka. Hazvisi kuzova nyore. Uye, chaizvo, vanhu vanogona kutokudaidza mazita ekusundidzira hamvuropu. Ingosiyana navo. Ziso pabhora, shingirira, shingirira, ramba uchisunda. Iwe uchafara iwe wakadaro nekuti nyika iri kuziva izvi zvakanyanya uye zvakanyanya. Saka, pindai, vakomana nevasikana! Ngatizviitei tisundire nyika nenzira yatinoda kuti ive inovandudza pano.
Izzie Clarke: 12:28
Tsamba yakanaka yekupedzisa. Ndinokutendai mose zvikuru nekubatana neni.
Kana iwe uri wekutanga- kana wepakati-basa muongorori uye iwe uchida kuve chikamu cheiyo transdisciplinary nharaunda, joina iyo International Science Council foramu yemasayendisiti ari kusimukira.
Enda kune webasaiti kanzuru.sainzi/forum kuti uwane zvimwe. Ndini Izzie Clarke uye nguva inotevera, tichave tichikurukura kukosha kwekugara zvakanaka uye tsigiro yehutano hwepfungwa kune vekutanga uye vepakati-basa vaongorori. Kusvikira ipapo.
Disclaimer
Ruzivo, maonero uye kurudziro zvinoratidzwa mumablog edu evaenzi ndeaya emunhu anobatsira, uye hazvireve hazvo hunhu uye zvinotendwa neInternational Science Council.
Verenga zvakawanda nezve The Science Diplomat Podcast: Sir Peter Gluckman pamusoro pezano reSainzi, kuvimba, uye miganhu yeuchapupu Verenga zvakawanda nezveSainzi isina miganhu: Kudyidzana kwenyika dzese kuchizvarwa chinotevera chevaongorori Verenga zvakawanda nezve Kufunga patsva kukura uye kusimba mune yekutsvagisa ecosystem 