IInternational Science Council uye Nhengo yayo, iyo China Association yeSainzi neTekinoroji (Rashai), mukubatana na muzvarirwo, vakatangisa mutsva-zvikamu zvitanhatu podcast nhevedzano inoongorora mamiriro ari kusimukira emabasa ekutsvagisa. Pakati pezvakatevedzana, vaongorori vekutanga uye vepakati-basa vachange vachikurukurirana nevakuru vesainzi, vachigovana zviitiko zvekukura, kubatana, uye kusimba pamberi pekuchinja nekukurumidza.
Chii chinodiwa kushandura sainzi kuita chiito padanho repasi rose? Muchikamu chechipiri ichi, mutori wenhau wesainzi Izzie Clarke inotaura nemanzwi maviri anotungamira mune zvesainzi diplomacy: Muzvinafundo Zakri Hamid, aimbova Mutevedzeri weSainzi kuMutungamiriri weMalaysia, uye María Estelí Jarquín, ISC Governing Board nhengo uye maneja wehukama hwepasi rose kuUK Center yeEcology uye Hydrology.
Pamwe chete, vanofungisisa nzira dzavo dzebasa uye vanogovana ruzivo rwekuti vaongorori vangavaka sei mabasa ane musoro mumutemo wesainzi, diplomacy, uye mabasa ekuraira. Kubva pakuyambira makurukota kuenda kunhaurirano dzepasi rose, vanopa fungidziro dzakajeka uye zano rinoshanda pahunyanzvi, mafungiro, nemikana inonyanya kukosha.
Izzie Clarke: 00:01
Mhoro uye tinokugamuchirai kune iyi podcast yakatevedzana pakuchinja kwemamiriro esainzi kune ekutanga uye epakati-basa vatsvagiri, iyo inoratidzwa mukubatana neInternational Science Council, nerutsigiro rweChina Association for Science and Technology.
Ndiri mutori wenhau wesainzi Izzie Clarke, uye chikamu ichi chinotarisa kukosha kwemabasa mukati memutemo wesainzi, diplomacy uye zano, uye hunyanzvi hunyanzvi hunodiwa nevatsvagiri vebasa rekutanga kusvika pakati pebasa vanofarira kushanda munzvimbo idzi.
Nhasi, ndabatanidzwa naProfessor Zakri Hamid, Mutungamiriri weInternational Institute of Science Diplomacy uye Sustainability paUCSI University kuKuala Lumpur, aimbova Chipangamazano weSainzi kuMutungamiriri weMalaysia uye Fellow yeInternational Science Council.
Zakri Hamid 00:49:
Hi Izzie.
Izzie Clarke 00:51:
Uye María Estelí Jarquín, parizvino ari chikamu chebhodhi rinotonga reInternational Science Council, uye zvakare maneja wehukama hwepasi rose kuUK Center yeEcology uye Hydrology muOxfordshire.
María Estelí Jarquín 01:03:
Mhoro, Izzie. Mhoro, Muzvinafundo Zakri. Ndinokutendai nekukoka uku.
Izzie Clarke 01:07:
Ndinokutendai mose zvikuru. Zvino, ndiri kufara zvikuru kutaura nemi. Ndinoreva, mabasa akakosha zvikuru amakaita mese. Saka, María, tingatanga newe here? Sei mutemo wesainzi, diplomacy uye mabasa ekuraira zvakakosha kwazvo munyika yanhasi?
María Estelí Jarquín 01:23:
Uyu mubvunzo unonakidza, Izzie. Saka, tiri kurarama munguva munhoroondo umo tinoda vanovaka mabhiriji kupfuura nakare kose. Saka, vanhu, pfungwa, dzinogona kubatanidza mativi akasiyana, kusimudzira nhaurirano, kuyananisa mapato anopikisana nemapoka kuti vauye pamwe chete votsvaga mhinduro dzenguva refu. Uye muhupenyu hwangu hwese, ndave ndichishamiswa nezvinogona kuitwa nesainzi - kudzoreredza kusawirirana, kubatsira kufamba mumamiriro ezvinhu akaoma.
Uye iri ndiro basa chairo resainzi mutemo, sainzi diplomacy uye mabasa ekuraira. Vakakosha chaizvo nekuti vanoona kuti mharadzano yeruzivo nekuita uye sainzi ine kugona uku kuyambuka miganhu, kubatanidza nyika kuti dzishande pamwe chete izvo zvimwe mune mamwe mamiriro adzisingaite. Vanachipangamazano vesainzi, vamiriri vesainzi, havasi kungopedza matambudziko anhasi. Vari kuisa nheyo dzemazambuko ayo zvizvarwa zvinotevera mumazana, mumakore mazana maviri kubva zvino zvichafamba zvichienda mberi.
Izzie Clarke 02:26:
Zakri, iwe wakaraira kune mamwe epamusoro mazinga muMalaysia. Saka, kuve chipangamazano wesainzi kunosanganisirei uye zvingaite sei?
Zakri Hamid 02:36:
Rega ndikutaurire imwe murairo kubva kuna Prime Minister. Pandakasangana naye kekutanga, akati, “Ndinoziva kuti uri musayendisiti uye ndiri wezvematongerwo enyika.
Iye akati, mumwe, "Zano resainzi rinogona kushandura kuita mari iri nani kune vanhu vedu?" Zvichireva, tingashandisa sainzi kuderedza urombo here? Uye wechipiri, akati, "Iyo sainzi zano rinogona kushandura kuita mabasa?" Iyi mirayiridzo yakapfava zvikuru asi yakaoma zvikuru. Saka, uku ndiko kukosha, kukosha, kwesainzi nhasi. Uye maitirwo andinozviita, hongu, kwaive nematanho mazhinji kubva mukushanda nehushumiri hwakasiyana hwakabatanidzwa musainzi kana kudyidzana nevamwe vedu mhiri kwemakungwa.
Izzie Clarke 03:45:
Chokwadi, uye ndinofunga ndizvo… kunaka kwesainzi ndeyekuti ine simba rekugadzirisa matambudziko. Asi isu tinoda zvakare vanhu vanorarama izvo zviitiko kuti vape izvo mukutsvaga kwavo, zvakare.
María, wakavaka basa rako pakubatanidza sainzi nepolicy. Saka, chii chakakukwevera munzira iyi uye ndeapi matambudziko amakasangana nawo pakutanga?
María Estelí Jarquín 04:10:
Mushure memakore angu eyuniti, ndakapinzwa basa kuti ndibatane nemapoka akasiyana evamiriri kuti vape hurumende yeLatin America mumisoro yakasiyana. Ndaigara ndichizvibvunza kuti sei zvikwata zvevanopa mazano zvaivepo pane kubvunza tsvakiridzo huru yaiitika. Saka, ndakatanga kutarisa zvirongwa zvaMaster kwandaigona kudzidza zvakawanda pamusoro pemharadzano iyi pakati pesainzi nepolicy, uye kwakava kutanga kwezvinhu zvose mubasa iri kwandiri.
Matambudziko. Zvakanaka, ndinobva kuLatin America, ndinobva kunyika ine mari yepakati. Ndakakurumidza kuona kuti ndaisazofanira kuva nenzwi patafura. Chekutanga dambudziko, pamwe zvimiro zvedu zvechipangamazano zvesainzi hazvina kurongeka sedzimwe nyika, saka nzira yekugadzira iyo ruzivo rwetsika nekukosha kwezvimiro izvozvo. Asi zvakare maitiro ekuve nezwi munyika umo pamwe dunhu rangu raive rakamiririrwa muhurukuro huru dzakatenderedza sainzi diplomacy.
Izzie Clarke 05:10:
Wakazvifambisa sei uye wakazvifambisa sei zvimwe zvipingamupinyi zvinoshanda, ingava murume kana mukadzi, chirango kana geography, zvinogona kubatsira vamwe vari munzvimbo yakafanana?
María Estelí Jarquín 05:23:
Ini ndinofunga ndakakanganiswa nezvose zvipingamupinyi zvawataura - murume kana mukadzi, chirango, geography uye, zvakakosha, zera. Saka, zano rangu ipapo pamusoro pekufamba kungave, chekutanga, gadzirira iwe, kudzidza. Kusvika chaizvo kumusangano kana kumusangano kana kumusangano wemarudzi akawanda wakagadzirirwa zvakanaka pamusoro pemusoro wenyaya, wakanyatsogadzirirwa kuti ndiani achapindawo.
Chechipiri, iva nevanopa mazano kuti vakubatsire kufamba mumamiriro ezvinhu aya. Varairidzi vangangove vari pamberi pako pabasa rako vanogona kugovera zvidzidzo zvavo nezvehupenyu.
Chechitatu uye chekupedzisira - kuzvininipisa. Pandakatanga kushanda takabatana kana kuvaka mabhiriji pakati pemasangano esainzi nehushumiri hwezvekune dzimwe nyika muLatin America - nyika mbiri dzakaparadzana kwazvo - ndinorangarira ndakasvika kuhofisi yekune dzimwe nyika muCosta Rica ndikati kwavari, "Mhoroi, ndauya pano kuti mundidzidzise zvese zvamunofunga kuti ndinoda kudzidza kubva kwamuri." Ndakatanga kuvimba navo. Uye unoita sei izvozvo? Nekuzvininipisa, nekuvhurika kudzidza zvinhu zvitsva pamwe nevaunoshanda navo uye nevaunoshanda navo munhaurirano dzemarudzi akawanda kana nhaurirano yemativi maviri, zvakare.
Izzie Clarke 06:41:
Ndinofunga kuti ipfungwa inonakidza nekuti ndinofunga dzimwe nguva vanhu vanogona kupinda muzviitiko uye kuda kunzwa kutya, kutya kubvuma kuti vangasaziva chimwe chinhu chavanoda kudzidza nezvazvo. Ndinofungidzira kuti idanho rekusagadzikana zvakare kuti nditi ndidzidzise, ndibatsireiwo.
Zakri, tinogona kutarisa basa rako kwechinguvana? Ndedzipi dzanga dziri dzimwe dzeidzo nguva dzakakosha kana sarudzo dzakabatsira kuumba yako yekudyidzana, basa rakatarisana nemutemo?
Zakri Hamid 07:10:
Mumwe mubvunzo unonakidza. Pandakawana PhD yangu, chinangwa changu chaive chekudzokera kunodzidzisa kuyunivhesiti. Kuchinja kwakaitika pandakakokwa kuti ndive mupi wezano wesainzi kana kuti unyanzvi kunhumwa dzehurumende yeMalaysia dzaikurukura nezveUN Convention on Biological Diversity, uye maiva muna 1990. Pakupera kwezuva rokutanga renhaurirano, ndakatsunga ushingi hwakakwana kuti nditaure nomukuru wenhume uyo akanga ari mumiriri.
Saka, ndakavaudza, Madam Ambassador, ndinofunga kuti ndinoda kuenda kumba. Iye ndokuti: Nemhaka yei? Ndakati, handina kunyatsoziva kana kugadzikana nemafambisirwo emusangano. Nhumwa idzi dzakabva kunyika dziri nhengo dzeUnited Nations, dzakabva kunyika mazana maviri, dzaizosangana mudare rehafu yeawa vobva vambomira. Vaizomira panzvimbo yokutandarira yenhume kwemaawa maviri nehafu, vachinwa kofi kana kuti zvimwe.
Saka, ndakamuudza kuti, handifungi kuti ndinokwana. Ipapo Ambassador vakabva vanditi, Professor, sei usingazvipe mamwe mazuva? Ainakidzwa asi akagumbukawo. Izvi zvakaitika makore anoda kusvika 40 apfuura. Handina kumbocheuka. Unoziva chikonzero nei? Nekuti maive muimba yekutandarira yevatumwa kwaiwirirana zvinhu.
Izzie Clarke 08:44:
Uye ndinofunga izvo zvinotitungamira zvakanaka kune pfungwa dzekutaura nezvehunyanzvi. Kuti uve nesimba rekutaurirana uye kutarisana nehurukuro idzodzo, iwe ungati ndeupi hunyanzvi hwakakosha hwekushanda mugwaro resainzi uye vaongorori vangatanga sei kuavandudza?
Zakri Hamid 09:05:
Kutanga, unofanira kuva muteereri akanaka. Chechipiri, iwe unofanirwawo kukoshesa chinzvimbo chemhandu yako. Chechitatu, unofanira kushivirira mupfungwa yokuti vamwe vanhu vanotaura kupfuura zvavanofanira kutaura. Chechina, unofanira kuva nezivo.
Saka, semusayendisiti, hongu iwe une ruzivo. Asi iwe unofanirwawo kungwarira zvakanyanya kuti zano resainzi ratinopa rinofanira kunge rine chekuita nenyaya. Chekupedzisira, ndinofunga, chero mutemo watinopa haufanirwe kuve wemutemo. Inofanira kunge inoenderana nepolicy.
María Estelí Jarquín 09:51:
Uye ini ndinonyora zvachose kune zvese zvataurwa naZakri. Uye ndaizowedzera hunyanzvi huviri chete. Yekutanga - hunyanzvi hwekutaura nyaya. Uye izvi zvichabatsira masayendisiti nevatsvagiri vebasa rekutanga kuti vagovane sainzi yavo zviri nani. Chechipiri chakakosha hunyanzvi - networking. Uye izvi kudzidza nzira yekuziva zviitiko zvakanaka, vanhu chaivo vekutaura navo kuti vabatsire kukura basa rako uye wobva wavaka nzvimbo yakafanana, kuvaka kuvimbana nevanhu ivavo kuitira, A, kudzidza kubva kwavari kana, vaviri, kuvapa zano.
Izzie Clarke 10:25:
Saka, kwamuri mese, munoona kupi mukana mukuru wevatsvagiri vebasa rekutanga kusvika pakati pekuti vape zvine mutsindo kunhaurirano dzepasirese kana yenyika?
Zakri Hamid 10:39:
Chekutanga chekutanga kuita munzvimbo yako kana nhanho yenyika kuti ubatanidzwe nehushumiri. Wataura nezvebazi rezvekunze - ndizvozvo. Asi musainzi mune zvimwe zvakawanda. Ministry of sainzi, tekinoroji uye innovation, Ministry of Trade. Unofanira kupfimbwa.
Kuita izvozvo kunogoneka kupa masevhisi ako kune iwo makomiti ari kuumbwa. Imwe yacho ndeyekuunza shamwari dzako dzesainzi. Tichacherechedza imwe nguva, kwete nguva dzose, masayendisiti anonyatsogadzikana mushongwe yavo yenyanga dzenzou. Kana iwe uri mudzidzi, unoburitsa mapepa, iwe unoda kukwidziridzwa kuva purofesa kana chero. Izvo zvakanaka.
Asi pane chimwe chinhu chinofanira kusanganisirawo mudzidzi. Uye ndiko kuongorora kana mhedzisiro yako yekutsvagisa inoenderana nenyika, inoenderana nedunhu. Saka, kana kukosha ikoko kusipo, ini ndichakuudza kuti une nzvimbo yakawanda yekukura.
Izzie Clarke 11:50:
Uye María?
María Estelí Jarquín 11:51:
Ndinoda kutaura meseji kune avo vese vekutanga- kusvika pakati-vatsvagiri vebasa vanobva kunyika dzepasi-nepakati-dzine mari dzepakati dzinogona kunge dzichititeerera. Shinga nekuuya kune iyi nyika mutemo kana hurukuro dzepasirese nekuti ndine chokwadi chekuti uchasiyanisa nhaurirano, nekuti uchaunza maonero matsva. Pamwe uchaunza nzira itsva.
Zvinokosha sei kuva patafura nomumwe munhu anogona kutaura kuti zvinhu zvinoshanda sei muSoutheast Asia, muAfrica kana muLatin America. Kutaura nezvekudyidzana kwakaenzana kana iwe uchishanda musainzi, kunyanya kuunza izwi kune vese avo vanga vasina kumiririrwa mune sainzi, asiwo muhurukuro dzemitemo padanho renyika dzakawanda.
Izzie Clarke 12:38:
Ndinokutendai mese nekubatana neni nhasi.
Kana iwe uri wekutanga- kana wepakati-basa muongorori uye iwe uchida kuve chikamu chenharaunda yepasi rose, zvino batana neInternational Science Council foramu yemasayendisiti ari kusimukira.
Enda kune webasaiti kanzuru.sainzi/forum. Ini ndini Izzie Clarke, uye nguva inotevera tinenge tichiongorora maitiro eAI uye digitalization pamabasa esainzi. Kusvikira ipapo.
Verenga zvakawanda nezve The Science Diplomat Podcast: Sir Peter Gluckman pamusoro pezano reSainzi, kuvimba, uye miganhu yeuchapupu Verenga zvakawanda nezveSainzi isina miganhu: Kudyidzana kwenyika dzese kuchizvarwa chinotevera chevaongorori Verenga zvakawanda nezve Kufunga patsva kukura uye kusimba mune yekutsvagisa ecosystem 